[Neil Johnson]

So, I've read all the threads that suggest (i.e. require) you to use an oven panel cut to size to support the weight of granite countertops with a dishwasher at the end of a cabinet run.

So my question indirectly relates to this. Do you still recommend the oven panel ($95) if this support is up against a wall? Couldn't I buy some similar thickness/strength wood cut to size and use that as support instead, and then cut a filler piece to attach to the front for aesthetic appearance? If so, what would you recommend I purchase to use in place of the oven panel?

I figured it would cost a lot less, and this oven panel (since it doesn't need to be visible) could be returned to save a few bucks.

Thanks in advance for any input and insight into what will likely be the first of many questions now that we've actually taken the plunge and purchased our cabs!

[cocontom]

I would (or rather, we did) screw 2x4s into the wall (studs) and set the counter on those to support the weight. We used deck screws to make sure we had enough support.

We also used the toekick as filler to keep the DW from being completely up against the wall.

	DW definitions DW can mean Dear or Darling Wife (or substitute your expletive), or alternatively DishWasher. Take your clues from the context.

[Narf]

Yep - a wood cleat does the trick. A 1x3 strip or larger will be more than sufficient.

If you're really tight on space, use a piece of angle iron - no need for a front trim when the resulting gap is only like 1/4"!

[Neil Johnson]

Great to hear. Thanks for the replies!

So just to clarify, I should do 1x3's or 2x4's (I'll likely go 2x4's to be safe) vertically from floor to counter height, screwed into the studs vs just doing a 1x3 or 2x4 horizontally as a cleat into the studs at counter height? Or do I combine the two methods with some running vertically to just below counter height with a horizontal cleat mounted above the vertical ones at counter height for added reinforcement?

Thanks!

[Chuck]

Use as little wood as you can get away with. A pair of humble 1x3's (one in back, one on the side), screwed into a couple of studs, will work fine. I would avoid 2x's, especially behind the DW , as they will push the DW too far from the wall. With a 1x, you can tuck the DW very close to the wall, and unless the wall is way out of square, you can get away with no filler at all.

Over the 24" (+/-) run that is the width and depth of your DW , you should be able to find two studs - one in the corner, the other 16" from there. Use a couple of screws in each stud, and you'll have plenty of support for you counter. Just be sure to drill and countersink the holes first to avoid splitting the wood, especially near the end of the piece.

There are several issues with filler pieces next to a DW . The first is the material itself and how it reacts to the moisture that a DW puts out. The toe kicks (and some deco strips, which are an alternate source for filler) are made from particle board, which swells when it gets wet, or exposed to the steam from the DW . Second, there is a "conflict" between getting the filler close enough to the DW and not interfering with the function of the spring which controls the door. Third is a problem with the appearance of the filler as it relates to the two depths of the DW - the depth of the body of the dishwasher and the shorter, more recessed depth at the bottom of the DW . Finally, there's the difficulty of securing the filler, especially when, as here, the DW is at the end of the run. You can't attach the filler to the DW itself, so you get into having to use adhesive, "L" brackets or other hardware and techniques to accomplish this task.

Bottom line here - use 1x's, scooch (carpenterese for "move/push/shove") the DW as close to your as possible, and skip the fillers.

	DW definitions DW can mean Dear or Darling Wife (or substitute your expletive), or alternatively DishWasher. Take your clues from the context.

[Neil Johnson]

Wow, thanks for all the detail Chuck. Just to clarify, I'm actually going to have about 28" of space between the wall and Adel White sink cabinet, which is where the dishwasher will go. So I will need ~4" of filler surrounding the dishwasher.

Per the responses, it sounds like I'd be ok to use 1x3's. So, do I just run these vertically along each stud all the way to the floor, or should I mount them as cleats horizontally along the wall? I'm concerned that cleats aren't quite enough support at the end run with granite on top.

Originally Posted by Chuck

There are several issues with filler pieces next to a DW. The first is the material itself and how it reacts to the moisture that a DW puts out. The toe kicks (and some deco strips, which are an alternate source for filler) are made from particle board, which swells when it gets wet, or exposed to the steam from the DW. Second, there is a "conflict" between getting the filler close enough to the DW and not interfering with the function of the spring which controls the door. Third is a problem with the appearance of the filler as it relates to the two depths of the DW - the depth of the body of the dishwasher and the shorter, more recessed depth at the bottom of the DW. Finally, there's the difficulty of securing the filler, especially when, as here, the DW is at the end of the run. You can't attach the filler to the DW itself, so you get into having to use adhesive, "L" brackets or other hardware and techniques to accomplish this task.

Now I'm slightly concerned. As stated above, I'll need to use about 4" of filler around the dishwasher and was planning to use "L" brackets to secure. I'll likely go with (a) all 4" of filler next to the wall with the dishwasher flush with the sink cab or (b) some filler on each side, so that the 24" dishwasher and filler aligns with the 24" wall cabinet + filler from above. Do I have other options, other than toekick filler, that would minimize any water/steam damage for this filler that I have to use next to the dishwasher?

I don't know where I'd be without this site...so much help and useful information! Thanks again!

[tbow]

Use a 1x3s (cut 23 1/2"s) and place one at counter height and screw into studs. using 2 1/2" sheetrock screws will be plenty strong enough to support your granite counter. Remember you'll also have 5/8" plywood as a base.

To take support your 4" filler put another 1x3 at the mid point and bottom of the wall. Assuming you cut the 1x3"s 1/2" short you can now finish nail your filler piece into the three 1x3's and it will have plenty of support.

To close/seal the ends of the filler panel I use the A/C aluminized duct tape, it's water resistant and looks like stainless.

[kelly]

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