[Lisa]

Okay, in case anyone hasn't read my thread about my gas line problems (which indicate I may now have to consider propane for cooking)...can I just say, while I appreciate all the advice from people who probably spent my entire kitchen budget on their faucet... I'd love some advice from people who realize that a) having all my AC ducting moved and replaced isn't an option, b) having a $3000 exterior gas line isn't an option and c) that the gas contractor assured me that there is no safety issue happening under my house (I called him this morning). It's just that due to the circumstances of how my home has been remuddled, it's not within my budget to do NG. Propane would be. It's not a jury rigged solution to my mind, in fact, propane is considered a viablealt energy solution and is being introduced in high end homes.

I've basically been upfront that I have a budget and I think the gas guy was being honest, not lazy. He also said that once the lines are run, if someone later decided they have money out the wahzoo, the fittings can be changed for NG and voila. The stove can be converted back. I mean, I could win the lottery.

What I can't do (in my mind)is spend $3000 right now. Or else I will have no kitchen. Getting gas cooking was a main reason I've wanted to remodel (and the pink formica).

So, what would you do?

1. Have a kitchen with no appliances or cabinets but a shiny new gas line?

2. Have the propane installed and say screw future buyers. Heck, there will IKEA cabinets. Another coffin nail, right?

3. Stick with electric.



(Okay, I realize that part about the faucet price sounds snippy, but...)

[GardenOfDarwin]

First of all, I'm wondering why you didn't title the post "My Gas Problem".

Secondly, I saw your post over on THS and while reading it, had the same reaction: "For cryin' out loud people, she's already made her points clear, and then RESTATEDthat it's really a questionof electric vs. gas (in whatever form it takes), and that she doesn't have the $$$ to pay to get it changed over to NG." Of course, you could always get a high-priced range (DCS, Bluestar, or an electric induction imported from Europe) to solve your small budget issue. No offense intended, but really...that's not exactly a problem solver. Geesh!

I say don't get electric. You won't be happy with it, and you'll always curse it--and that can't be good for you or for DD's little ears. I have to say that while I know that the THS folks are a great bunch of people who really only want to give the best advice, I don't agree with the common chorus of "you have to be happy" (with the implied "whatever the cost"). I mean seriously, if I wereto have not sacrificed anything in the interest of being"happy" with my kitchen choices, my children would be without shoes and possibly food for quite some time. Good, sounddecisions yes, but atany cost? I don't think so. Not all of us have unlimited budgets and/or any interest in making the credit card issuers rich.

I do, however,believe that it's important that you achieve your main design and functionality goals, or why bother? What's the point of putting all the $, effort, time and energy into creating a space for yourself if the end result doesn't work for you? And I mean the YOU, you, not the nebulous YOU, future buyer you.

And I don't think that propane is any threat to resale. Granted, I'm not the savvyest when it comes to real estate issues, but in these parts, having something other than a 1972 **** brown range with a maniacal oven is a selling point. Gas to cook with?? Woo-hoo! Personally, I don't like the idea of a big tank out back, but then I got used to the idea of having 2 large AC units on the side of the house real quick when the temperatures in May 2002 topped 95 and stayed there for weeks whilst I was hugely pregnant.

I would say that MOST people (and most definitely NOT the people who haunt the Kitchens Forum) are not that particular. There are enough people on this forum and that forum to prove that houses with bad kitchens WILL sell. Houses with poor insulation, electrical, plumbing, and nocharacter WILL sell. And many at top dollar. If in the end you have to provide an allowance for a buyer to upgrade to NG, then so be it. Save your dollars now so that you can enjoy Europe with your daughter again this winter.

That's my (opinionated) .02.

Susan

[Lisa]

This is the comment I don't really get:
Your propane installation will not be free, so consider only the difference in $ to run the gas line.

Had I given the impression that I thought they would install propane for free? The propane install is $350.The gas line is $3000. So the difference is $2650. My total kitchen budget is $5000 (I have no 20% standard overage cushion, and no home equity loan to use to throw caution to the wind). To haveNG I'd have to cut out my cabinets, countertops and my appliances to make up the difference.

(If I have it run under the house -he didn't give me a quote for that- I have no clue, but the HVAC people will remove my ducting temporarily for a fee of $650. Again, more than the budget allows)

*sigh* I have a request into Frigidaire to find out how many BTU's my range will lose using LP.

My crappiest gas stoves were better than the electric I have now.

Plus, this area is still rural enough that people who can have city/county water have wells and their houses still sell. And a well means no water when we lose electricity for 8 days after a hurricane . None. Not a drop. To me, that's worse than propane for cooking. But hey, I drink water, bathe, and flush more than I cook.

[GardenOfDarwin]

I got really used to it being so dark and quiet at night the week after Isabel. We were without power (we had water)for almost exactly 1 week, and let me tell ya, we were all at my MIL's house every other day because she has propane. Because she has propane, she could cook, we could take showers in HOT water, and we could dry clothes. They weren't clean ones, but we could dry 'em!!! Well, I suppose if we'd taken them out to the river to bang them, they could have been clean. Or we could have worn them in the shower, butI digress... The worst part was that while we were there, I couldn't keep from staring at that huge tank in her yard. I couldn't enjoy the hot food we were eating, the warm shower was fraught with anxiety and the clothes might just as well have stayed wet. *shudder*

Ok, flashback to the present...."consider only the difference in $ to run the gas line". Hmmm. Well, then you'd be saving yourself the price of the Bluestar or DCS, so you'd actually come out ahead! Look at that! Now you're pocketing cash!

Will you miss the lost BTU's? Will you even know any better? You've already admitted to not being a 4 star chef. I'm guessing that if you save up all your BTU's most of the year for your bi-annual duck roasting, you'll have all the BTU's you'll need. How many does your recipe call for?

Susan

[elizabeth_va]

Lisa, I read your thread on THS and had the same reaction as Susan. I can completely understand because I am also one whose budget *means* something. Its not just some arbitrary number I came up with.

Essentially, I think if being able to cook with gas was one of themain reasons for the remodel, then I think you should go with the propane.

My parents have a (probably mid-range?) electric flat cooktop range (sorry, don't know the technical term) and I hate it. Okay, I don't *hate* it, but I actually prefer cooking (looking at is a different story) on a coil-burnered range. The flattop is really slow to heat up. And I find it a pain to clean. If water boils over on it, you have to scrape up the burned water. It just seems high maintenance to me. This is in no way meant to offend anyone who has a flattop range; these are just my opinions of using one. I do think they look 100 times better than the coils, but for my lazy style of cooking and cleaning, I prefer the coils.

In terms of resale, are you planning to move any time soon? If not, I really wouldn't worry about it. I think if I were looking at a house and found out it had LP, it would probably give me pause. But only because I am totally unfamiliar with it. Honestly, though, I think once I saw that the range works just the same as with NG, it would quickly become a non-issue. Especially once I saw the IKEA cabs and your fab sounding purple room with the green chairs! You were planning to let those convey, right?! Anyway, when the time comes to sell, you could put it on the market with the LP and if you don't get the response you would like, I assume it would still be an option to swap it out with a cheap electric range?

Also just my $.02, but wanted to give you my thoughts.

Megan

[Lisa]

Thanks guys. Some days it is all I can do to hold my tongue (fingers?) over there.*sigh*

I just got off the phone with Frigidaire. These are the BTU specs for my range ($598, btw):

1 - 14,000 BTU Power Burner™ for rapid boiling
3 - 9,500 BTU sealed burners

The CS rep said I would lose about 500 BTU's with a conversion. Will I miss them? I can't really say. I have no idea what the BTU output is on my propane grill side burner and I can successfully sear duck breast and make the maple dijon reduction that M & I like with it. *shrugs*

The gas guy did mention that the tank (I'd be getting a small one and be on a monthly top off rotation) is very inconspicuous - and that my existing bushes will hide it to the backyard and I could camoflauge it from the other angle with a simple trellis. There is no wayI could run out. He said the 24 gallon tank would probably last me 6 months without filling it.

I talked to my electrician about havingthe kitchen's current 220V line run over there and placed behind a blank coverplate. It will be covered by my backsplash (an IKEA KLUDD memoboard ). So a squeamish buyer could go electric, stick with the LP, or upgrade to gas. Some people actually prefer electric, so I'm doing them a favor by having the power there for them. So... I think I'm covering my bases.

*Hugs budget minded IKEA fans*

[Tigratrus]

Lisa,

Just to add another voice to the chorus, Go Propane. If you look at the math, the conversion would still net youabout 96.5%of the heat output on your "Power Burner" which is about 50% more powerful than your other 3 burners. IS ANYONE going to notive a 3.5% decrease in heat output?! If they do, and comment on it, I would have a single response: "Get out of my house."

The heat output difference is negligible. If anyone was concerned about it they could probably upgrade to a higher BTU burner stove for less than running the NG lines. You will still have the heating characteristics of Gas vs electric (I.E. instant heat, Instant Off), and you will NOT lose the ability to cook in a power outage. The 220 line could alwaysbe used later to add a highend oven (our Advantium take 30 Amp 220!). In any case I doubt there are very many real world home buyers who would blink an eye at having Propane vs NG, if they even know the difference...

As everyone else said, do what makes you happy and is doable/reasonable. It sounds like propane is an ideal solution in your situation. Look at it this way, it's like getting a big chunk of your renovation free! Right? Isn't that howshopping works? Susan keeps trying to convince me that it is at any rate...

[nyc_home]

Well, I’m such a city girl that I’ve only lived places where the super comes and hooks your stove up to the gas thingy on the wall and you never think about it again. So, I know nothing about propane tanks, installing gas lines, or reselling homes in rural areas. (I also haven’t used electric stoves enough to really compare)



However, I do know a lot about budgets. I agree that you should go with the propane. The whole idea of a budget is to first prioritize what’s most important to you (which you said is switching from electric to gas) and then to see if there’s an affordable way to get it (which would be the propane). Even if you’re not a gourmet chef, for most people, the kind of stove you have is a pretty important part of your kitchen. My husband tried to talk me into a 24” stove in order to gain 6” more of counter space—you could probably fit my entire kitchen inside of your shiny new propane tank ---but I was adamant that I didn’t want to redo my kitchen into a room where I ‘d only be able to cook less food.



If you need help adjusting for the $350 to install propane, I’m getting really good at budget juggling.

[Lisa]

I actually allowed $350 for a NG line since I thought it would be so simple since I have NG service *sigh*(I actually thought I'd get a little back into the budget). But propane doesn't hurt the budget.

I called my tradespeople to find out when it might be best to have the propane guy come out. Looks like anytime after next week will work. And the cool thing? Because of the IKEA capita feet, my shutoff can be right under the cab - so no drilling or cutting or loss of space. The propane guy said I was the first woman who said the gas shut off valve was "cool".

I am going to save some money by pulling my own permit. Yes, an actual inspection, Susan

[LilithNS]

Boy, by the time I get a chance to respond, the decisions are all made! I have propane and like it so much better than electric. I don't think you should go electric. I was thinking about the propane tank (which will be tiny - you should see mine, it's about 8'long) and had the same idea as the propane guys, clever landscaping or hardscaping(a "cute" little fence or trellis is much more budget friendly than the NG). I haven't had time to find the discussion on the other forum but I'm curious!.