[kelly]

Jenswren, thanks for your feedback about the site.

We're certainly changed- we have more than 55,000 members who get feedback and information on how to get the most out of IKEA.

Perhaps you were unaware, but the administrators- and owners- of the site spend 160+ hours a week plus thousands of their own dollars monthly to keep it up and running, adding new functionality constantly with a real dedication to adding value for the membership. Which is, of course, completely free. Think of all the photos and other data-rich items stored here. Not cheap.

Frankly, our administrators are consistently faced with the "smart" decision...shut down IKEAFANS. They are not independently wealthy. This is not a hobby. Nor is it a currently money-making proposition. They are very much in the red. Very few people would have made the decision they did to keep the site up in this situation.

So, very, very, reluctantly, they agreed to add advertising to the site. They had to. It generated very little money. So, they had to step up the advertising. Very, very reluctantly.

However, there are ad-free options- you just need to donate to the site and all the ads go away. They would far far rather have donations than ads. They don't like ads. But it's that or no IKEAFANS.

Very few people donate. A great many people benefit. But not our administrators.

Just thought you'd like to know. Their only intent is to keep answering questions and helping people. Someday they may even make their first dollar doing it.

Donations are easy- just click the link in my signature. For those of you who have been around a while you might remember that my tagline was "remember the dodo." I hope I never have to say "remember IKEFANS."

Kelly

[Tigratrus]

Well Kelly covered pretty much all I was going to say, nice job!

I think it's important to realize one important fact: Sites that don't make enough money to support their development/support needs, almost always get neglected and go downhill. We decided that we were willing to gamble our future on continuing to develop so we could do something for a living that we love doing.

I would like to emphasize for those that don't see the behind the scenes conversations that when Kelly says that adding the advertising was "reluctant" she's not kidding. Susan has resisted advertising doggedly, and stuck with simple low key Google ads for a loooong time.

As Kelly said we tried *really* hard to make it a community supported site, we had a core group that donated generously, but the total only added up to $1200 for the entire campaign, and very little since then.

What it comes down to is that most people are fundamentally disinclined to contribute money unless there is some reason that they need to. It would be nice if it was otherwise, but that's the way it is.

Developing the next version of the site (which has a heavy emphasis on improved functionality and better layout with *vastly* better support for articles etc) has taken pretty much focused effort from both of us, and we work on it pretty much all the time. IKEAFANS has grown beyond being a hobby, and once you get to that point you have the choice of finding a way to make it your occupation and growing it to be a better and better resource, or not being able to devote enough time to it and watching it languish.

The ad free subscription is cheap and I've tried to make it as effective as possible at filtering out new things that might be considered advertising (for instance the IKEA on Ebay threads are filtered out of the Recent Posts searches, took most of yesterday to make it work right, but I think I've got it nailed now).

Wait till you see the next version... It's going to be a lot nicer looking, and we're putting a lot of effort into making it more intuitive and easier to navigate. In pursuit of that, I'd love to hear any specific navigational problems you see? The more I know about what *doesn't* make sense to others the more intuitive the next version will be .

James

[jenswrens]

Well, good grief! Had I known a donation would cure the ads, I would've done it a year ago.

Problem is, now I can't seem to make a donation. None of those links work for me. Can you give me a live link to click? How much is the donation that cures the ads?

And the first response I got to this post was exactly what I meant by the site has become "impersonal." Before, I would've gotten a reply right away from Susan. Instead I got a reply from a moderator who doesn't even remember me (yes, I remember your tagline, kelly). Seriously, if James hadn't responded to this post as well, I wouldn't be typing this right now. I would've just moved on and chalked it up to the sad demise and commercialization of IkeaFans.

I was one of the original first 500 members. So, yes, I'm "aware" - I know all about Susan and James and the kids and the cute house in Virginia and the exodus from THS and the out of pocket expenses, etc etc. I was here at the beginning. I guess I remember when this place was a sweet little family, (and being able to look at the little list at the bottom that told us who all was online at the same time). Now you say there are 55,000? Ack!!!

I'm really glad for you both that the site is doing so well. After I figure out how to donate and GRO the ads, I'll be happy to come back and try to elaborate on some of those navigation issues I'm having.

And thanks for keeping Ikeafans alive! (And listening to my grumblings...)

Jen

[Susan]

Hi Jen! It's great to see you again - I remarked on it when I saw you online the other day. And thanks for your honesty. I'm sorry I wasn't able to respond right away...I did see your post, and I thought about it alot. And what I thought was this:

Remember when you loved animals? You just really loved them, and you liked spending time with them and it was fun and you even enjoyed spending some of your own money on them? But then at some point, you decided you wanted to make a living at it, right? So...you went to school, and spent your time and money and it's ok, because it's all your decision and because you love it so much. It's all good.

But now you're out of school and in order to continue to do what you love, you find that it's not enough to just love it anymore. Now you've got to pay the bills for the office, buy equipment, maybe even pay employees or professionals for services to keep you legal and afloat. And your friends whose animals you've always loved now have to make appointments to be seen, and you need licenses and insurance and then there's the uncomfortable subject of billing - but, it's got to be done...I mean, you've got to make a living right? And also pay yourself (or your bank, or your life savings) back for the time and money it took you to learn to do what you do and to build a business. Nobody begrudges you the fact that you charge a fee for your services because you're a professional and you've earned it.

At IKEAFANS, we've kept the site mostly advertising free for a looooong time - longer than we should have. And we've kept the registration free. But we have to pay the bills. And I no longer think I should feel guilty about making a living on something that we've devoted 3 years of our life to build.

And to tell you the truth, had your post had something more than just complaints (your words), I would have responded right away. I did read it, and I almost responded, but I'm glad (and so are you, probably) that I didn't. Frankly, it was a bit disheartening coming from a member who has been around for a long time, and knows the back story. But I do understand where you're coming from, and I hope you can see it from my point of view as well.

There is a new version of IKEAFANS on the way. We've been working long hours for the last 5-6 months to bring a better organized site to you, with additional features and better access to information. Look for it mid-late July. Hopefully the navigation issues will be much improved, but we always appreciate feedback - if noone tells us there's a problem, how are we to know? Constructive criticism is always welcomed.

As for donations - there's a Support IKEAFANS link at the bottom of every page. And there's the yellow sticky 'donate' button on the left on every page....those are two easy ways to donate. Since we're in the midst of upgrading the forum software and miscellaneous parts and peices to the next version, we've temporarily turned off the Ad-Free subscription option, but if you send a donation, I'll manually add you to the group which will enable you to turn off the ads. Just make sure you PM me to let me know - we're out of town for a week, so bear with me if I take a while to respond.

Thanks again for your honesty and feedback. I do appreciate it, and I hope you can see where I'm coming from as well.

Susan

[torrus]

I tend to concentrate on answering technical questions, occasionally venturing into planning, but feel obliged to respond to this thread...being member # 251 (I think) - IKEFANS means a lot to many people, and ,yes, Susan and James may not be able to answer each question - but the mods and mentors on the site have an incredible amount of experience and knowledge when it comes to IKEA product...we spend a lot of time helping people from around the world find their way through the (occasionally) perplexing world of IKEA.
As the site site has grown tremendously in last two years the revenue question has become critical - and without donations alternate sources are required.
The ads are part of being able to maintain a 'free & independent' site.

I'm proud to be able to support the Fansite and be a friend to my fellow mentors...hopefully more members can see the value of this incredible resource and support it as well.

[kelly]

Jenswren,

Why in the world would you think I don't remember you?

The site might be a lot bigger, but I continue to love interacting with people here and paying the help, guidance and support I got on my kitchen forward.

Your comments about me really hurt my feelings, frankly.

[laurie]

Jen, I'm sure that everyone welcomes you here anytime you need help or just want to chat.

I haven't been able to be around much anymore (not that I haven't wanted to!) and things certainly have changed alot. I'm sure you can see just how much more experience the site has gained since we were first around. What an encyclopedia of expertise!!!!

I'm happy for Susan and James that the site has grown so much. I'm sure that it's going to be quite some time before I get my new kitchen, and I hope that IKEAfans will be here when that time comes because I have absolutely no knowledge of how to assemble the cabinetry.

Hats off to everyone here for the invaluable information that's supplied everyday and to the hours and hours of volunteer time that's given, especially to you Susan and James for never giving up.

[abcdefGARY]

Hi,

I've been browsing around IKEAfans for a long time now... as a guest/non-registered member. I did register today to file a suggestion that I think IKEAfans can benefit from.

I understand that most of the profit going towards maintaining the site comes from the advertisements, but in my opinion, they are really obtrusive, and it is especially hard to find where I am going to or what page I am looking at, particularly in the forums.

It goes to the point where the very top of every page in the forums are advertisements, and not content.

I believe that if advertisements are better placed throughout the site, it would decrease the strain of always needing to scroll down on my screen and increase the registration of other members, as they will think that IKEAfans is not a site targeted to earn money.

This is just my suggestion. Cheers and keep up the good work.

[pintbarb]

I am loving this site and thank you all but I have a technical problem. Maybe I am just not understanding how this works but I can't get to "got questions" to post a question. I've posted a few by creating a thread, but I have no idea how I did it. Any advice, please?
barb

[Minmin]

Hi Everyone, Minmin here... I have to thank Susan, James, and the other moderators and posters who helped me through my kitchen renovation two summers ago. I'm not sure how many members there were when I registered, but it was still a fairly small group, with occasional crossover from the Garden Web site (Mariposita, you were one, right?). I got advice and encouragement, and got to grumble a bit during a very difficult summer (believe it or not the difficulty had little to do with the renovation!). The new site came on line after the bulk of my renovation was complete and I didn't need to visit Ikeafans on a daily basis, and so (perhaps a bit like Jenswren?), I am not as comfortable manipulating my way through the new Ikeafans, but it's probably because that's not the system I learned. I am back again, because I'm about to finish (add a backsplash) my original project, and am trying to update a built-in cupboard in my bathroom AND am considering (gulp) an even bigger move.Overall, though, I see the same openheartedness and good advice as before, even though it's a much much bigger group.

I understand the need for the ads, but look forward to seeing more unobtrusive placement in the new version. I also think that uploading pictures and web links could be a little easier, and it would be great if I could get the leftover pieces out from under my couch. I've come to rely on the "recent entries" columns when I do log on, and then I scan the forum index for topics of interest. The search function is great! I used to use Google when I thought there was something in an earlier post. This takes out a step or three. I can't wait to see the NEW new Ikea fans. (Will we get a sneak peek?)