[minnesota girl]

Hi everyone!

I love this forum, people are so helpful

So, I'm in the process of figuring out what to do with my kitchen floor. I have dug up the floor in a couple of discrete spots (don't tell my husband!) and it appears I have two layers of vinyl, a layer of stuff you lay vinyl on, a sturdy feeling subfloor that is about 3/4 inches thick, followed by a layer of seemingly easy to pick off lino and glue. Underneath that mess is 3 inch (or so) plank fir (I think!) flooring. I've been reading online about refinishing fir flooring, and it looks really pretty when finished.

My question - does anyone on this forum have any actual experience with this or know anyone else who has successfully refinished a fir floor? I'd love to tackle this project (it's winter in MN and I'm not much of an outdoors person so it's this or tivo) but I want to have a little bit more confidence in the outcome. I know it's always a gamble with something like this, but I'd love to hear from anyone out there who might be able to give me some advice. Even if it's advising me against the project, I guess that's okay too.

Thanks!

Liz

[kelly]

Hi Liz! It has been brisk lately, yes? Oh yes.

The real issue here in my mind is are all the things stuck to the floor going to come up or are you going to have to mortgage your soul to get it all off? Nothing in our kitchen remodel was as awful as getting the old flooring up. I have no doubt that you can refinish the floor, but getting to that point can be painful.

If you didn't refinish the floor, would you go over what you have there now? What I'm really asking is are you okay with pulling all that up and finding the floor isn't what you'd hoped? That you have to sand the heck out of it to get the last bits of say, tar roofing material off it?

This sounds like I'm trying to disuade you, but really, I think it's great when you can uncover a floor and refinish it. They can just be really hard to get at in kitchens. Living rooms- go for it...

Anyone else??

[Emmie9999]

Hi Liz, and welcome!

I have original pine/fir flooring throughout my whole house, and if I could have salvaged and kept the flooring in the kitchen, I would have done it in a heartbeat. But Kelly's points are excellent, and you really need to consider what you could be getting into.

We had layers similar to what you describe, and one layer was luon (sp?) that was nailed about every 1/8" into the original flooring. Even if we could have gotten up all the nails, that would have been beyond "weathered and distressed". The luon was first glued down, so we would have had to go through that, also.

Another thing you must consider is that one or more of those layers might be asbestos, in which case ripping it up and sanding it could be extremely dangerous. I simply cannot emphasize it enough, improper removal of asbestos can mean drastic consequences to your health and your loved ones. It's a fairly simple procedure to remove it safely, but assuming you got it up, I don't know if sanding it would be a good idea. (Are any of the layers a black, fiber-y material? I think that is something you should be wary of...)

However, if you find it is safe, and if you are really willing to take it on, then I would suggest you pull up everything and take a good long look at the condition of the floor before deciding. I know that somewhere I read about people restoring an old floor by putting down blocks of dry ice to freeze the glue in sheets and crack it off, then sanding it down and putting on gallons of poly. (Of course, I can no longer find this brilliant article...)

If, under it all, you find a floor in horrible shape (which is possibly why they covered it up in the first place), you can simply remove that last layer and go right down to the subfloor, and start over. You can find reclaimed pine flooring, and also would have the option of using other woods, like oak or ash or poplar. The graining matches pretty nicely.

I hope that helps!

[minnesota girl]

Thanks for both of your replies. I agree, this is a proceed with caution type situation.

Ugh, asbestos. Didn't even think of that. The old lino/vinyl layer (can't really tell which it is) does have some sort of fibery type layer that is holding down the lino, but the thing is that from my limited amount of futzing with it so far - that fiber layer seems really easy to pull off, it will be the thing that would make prying up the subfloor much easier. From what I can tell, the subfloor is only glued not nailed.

Is there somewhere that I could easily get the underlayment tested for asbestos? Do I even want to know this?

[Emmie9999]

I think you do want to know. I'm not sure how easy it is to test for it. I do know there have been some other threads on this subject in the past, and I will try to find them for you.

If asbestos is ripped out, it can release fibers into the air which are impossible to clean up, and can get into your lungs. HOWEVER, removing it is not incredibly difficult. If I remember correctly, if the fibers are damp/wet, they don't ..."shed", for want of a better word. I'm not advising you do it yourself, but it may be possible to do, provided you are extremely careful.

Ah, here is one thread...floor mess...help!

When was your house built, and do you ahve any idea of when they might have put down one of those layers of flooring? The age of the flooring may help figure out if it's possible you have it. Also, you can check with neighbors. Do you have a contractor you are working with?

[kirsty]

No experience with pine refinishing, but I am another 'crazy floor scheme' person!

We too pulled out multiple layers of our home's old flooring - tile, lino on fiberboard, vinyl stick down tiles, down to the plank pine floor, which was unusable since it was patched here and there (from the old stove, etc) and covered in sticky tar paper.

Then, a lucky CL find led to my current 'bad idea'- recovering it in reclaimed topnail oak (matches the rest of the house) which is proving to be a giant, slow, PITA. I'm still not sure if its going to work, but I tell myself that if it fails, at least I'll have a nice flat surface to glue cork tiles to.

I concur w/ previous posters, if any layer went in from 1920-1980 then I'd have it tested. Even if it is asbestos, it's non-friable (less dusty) and not too difficult to remove. We sent our samples to a place in California (Western Analytical Laboratory - Asbestos Testing Lab) - if you google 'asbestos testing' you'll likely find places locally as well.

Good luck!
Kirsty

[minnesota girl]

Thanks everyone for the advice. I will look into the asbestos testing.

Kirsty - is topnail oak the 1.5 inch wide stuff that is found in old houses but nowhere else? Installing matching oak flooring in the kitchen was one option I though to (before I realized that you can't find it anywhere!)

Oh, and to answer the question about the year my house was built - in 1937.

[kirsty]

Liz-

Its about 2" wide, and maybe a 1/4" thick. (was thicker at one time, before refinishing) No tounge/groove, just nails through the top. I am guessing it went in sometime in the early 40's? (house was built circa 1905)

Most flooring pros seem to think it's all a waste of time, and everything I found on the internet was very discouraging. Having done it I can understand why:

1. As you know, finding the stuff is not easy- we have a great network of salvage places here in Seattle, but they either don't bother with it or sell out of it fast. I had just about given up when I found some on Craigslist under 'free stuff'.

2. Laying the floor and trying to work with the old nail holes where possible, warping, etc is tedious. Its going really, really slow-also it isn't perfectly flat, so we have to pick and choose to find pieces that minimize ridges and gaps between.

3. After all that, floor is still not completely smooth, since it's impossible to get the boards to match perfectly. It will probably need some careful hand sanding here and there to bring it flat & then figure out how to match the stain/finish.

Of course it would be cheaper to rip it all out and put in new, but I'm glad I did it, so far anyway-- I enjoy a challenge and don't mind living with the mess in the meantime. And if I can pull it off, I will have an (almost) free floor! Not to mention the 1" or so I gained in ceiling height. So I encourage you to go for it, if you want to. The worst that can happen is that you have to lay another floor on top of it. And some wasted time-- but with the writer's strike and all, there's nothing good on TV anyway.

I've been meaning to post some pictures- maybe this weekend, we don't have any lights in yet so it's too dark in the evenings.

Best,
Kirsty

[KalseboKate]

Kirsty,

If you have a few scraps from your oak flooring,I may be willing to pay the freight on them. I have an area of flooring in a hallway to repair from where we moved the kitchen doorway, and I can't find matching stuff anywhere! I only need about a square foot or so, in two to three inch chunks.

Our house was built in 1940 and the original flooring in most areas was white oak. It is old growth, hard as Old Ironsides, and close-grained. It is in very high demand for retro and re-fits and repairs around here.

Thanks,
Kate

[kirsty]

Oh no problem, it's likely we'll have some spare--especially if you just need shorties.

I'll post a pic in the next couple of days, and you can PM me if it looks like it would work for you.