[DougA]

Hello,

I've posted here before, and we're very grateful for the help we've gotten. Almost, almost getting done. Searched the forums but didn't get answers to these questions. Brief description --> Lidingo kitchen, Domsjo single bowl sink, Pronomen countertop. It's an old (1830s) rowhouse in SE Penna, exposed brick wall in the kitchen, old barnwood floors, so a very warm feeling, and the white of the Lidingo works well. We would like to keep the countertop as close to natural Pronomen (i.e., light) as possible.

Now the questions:

1. Most here talk about Waterlox and tung oil finishes, yet IKEA sells the Behandla which no one seems to even mention. Any reason why? Which one would keep the color of the wood as close to "natural"? I notice that the Behandla is linseed oil, "wood treatment oil" (whatever that is), lead free drying agent, water and emulsifier. Waterlox is a tung oil finish. We used Minwax Polycrylic (an acrylic water-based finish) on the floor so that the already warm finish didn't darken further. Does Waterlox darken the wood?
2. We've cut the countertop for the sink already, and it's ready to be finished, but we're wondering which surfaces should be finished, and why. The cut ends of the countertop by the sink? The underside and other edges of the countertop? I know that a silicone caulk is recommended under the lip of the sink, but does anyone see reason to (or NOT to) do further finishing of surfaces at the other edges.

We bought the pieces to clamp the Pronomens together, thanks to a recommendation here. As I said, almost, almost...

Thanks for any suggestions.

DougA (and Susan)

[Birkie]

Your kitchen sounds beautiful and I can't wait to see pictures!

I used the Behandla oil from IKEA and so far have been very happy. My Numerar birch counters have been in use almost 9 months. We try not to cut anything on it but there are still some light knife marks and one rust stain from a wet pizza pan left over night on the counter... Water rings turn white and then dry up to invisible. Spills bead up and I wipe them off. I am going to sand and apply another layer next week to try and remove the rust stain.

I love the counter top:
-It didn't change the color much, but did seem to give the wood more depth (show the grain?). I used birch. The oak seems darker with more variation.
- Application is easy, hand sand lightly with 200 grit paper on a block (5 minutes max), paint oil on and let it penetrate, wipe off 15-20 minutes later. Wait 1-2 days between coats so it thoroughly soaks in.
- I did about 6 coats over time (two before installation and 4 after).
- My installer told me to oil all cut edges (they maybe got two coats). I also oiled the bottom twice before installation.
- Behandla has very little smell that dissipates within a day or so.
- I like the satin finish that keeps the wood looking natural.
- I expect to sand and oil it (one coat) maybe twice a year, probably about the same maintenance as soapstone.
- If it does get really crummy, for the $300 it costs, I'll install a new one!

What I don't like:
-Sometimes it seems a little "sticky", maybe it's on humid days. It's not a serious problem to me and a small trade-off. The Varde trolley we bought has the thinner Pronomen in birch. We finished it the same way and it never gets sticky.

I have also wondered why it seems like very few people use the Behandla finish.

[NBeth]

We've got Pronomen with Waterlox on the sink section and Behandla on the rest. All sides and edges have lots of treatment--why ever not? Wood will warp if one side dries out more than the other, so even if water damage were not a factor, I would protect as much as possible. I just wish I could do the undersides again now...

As for the color, there's very little difference between the two. Both darken the wood a bit but mostly to bring out its natural richness. There's not a significant color difference to my eye. Behandla is far easier to work with: using heat I can do multiple coats and the odor is minimal and not disturbing (to me). Waterlox takes real time to dry (minimum 12 hours--we did 24 but it was winter and wet around here) and it stinks! But it seals it much better: no stains on that section, whereas Behandla is very vulnerable to rust stains.

You can see the two treatments side by side in this photo.

Re: Finishes for Pronomen countertop - comparisons ; also end and bottom finish? 

[Birkie]

With an undermount sink, Behandla probably wouldn't be the best choice of finish. It seems like more and more people are installing undermount sinks, so we are hearing a lot about using sealers like Waterlox.

[yankeelawyer]

Birkie's counters are gorgeous, so please no one take offense at what I am about to say, but linseed finishes actually blacken over time, and I would not finish any wood with a linseed sealer. I have a substantial amount of experience finishing wood -- from hulls of boats, to an entire barn, to my flooring, etc. and am a trained artist (Parson's). A significant difference between Waterlox and other tung oil (or linseed) is that Waterlox actually dries thoroughly, and you will never have any issue of transfer of oil from counter surfac eto things placed on top (paper and whatnot). Waterlox also contains resins that penetrate and harden the wood.

Waterlox is really easy to apply, nearly mistake-proof, and easily touched up if you ever mar the surface (just dab a little on the damaged part with a rag and blend it in). It is dry to the touch in about 24 hours, but you should not put anything heavy on it for about 2 weeks, and it will not fully cure for 4 to 6 weeks, at which point it reaches maximum hardness. Once cured, there is no smell and according to the manufacturer, it is foodsafe.

Waterlox does darken the wood very slightly (well, it deepens the color and highlights the natural beauty of the wood, and maybe darkens it a shade or two -- not much). To mitigate that, be sure to sand the surface with a palm sander (Black and Decker makes a good inexpensive one -- about $35 -- available at HD) befire finishing. That will, in most cases, lighten the wood a couple of shades because it removes any surface dirt and the part that has darkened while in the store. Then apply the waterlox. After the first coat, wet sand it using wet sanding paper (which you saturate and water and then sand as normal) to remove the fuzzy bits of the grain that pop up). Then apply another 2 coats, minimum, waiting 24 hours between each, ideally.

I just finished some numerar oak counters (which we cut down to be used as shelves) in waterlox and they came out amazing. We stained ours walnut to match our floors, but I also did some test samples with waterlox only and it only darkened the counters very slightly; you really have to look closely to see the difference. And oak is the darkest of the available counters; birch and beech are lighter.

[yankeelawyer]

Originally Posted by NBeth

As for the color, there's very little difference between the two. Both darken the wood a bit but mostly to bring out its natural richness. There's not a significant color difference to my eye.

Exactly, I agree.

[yankeelawyer]

Would a sealer like Thompson's water sealer work on the sink cutout? That stuff is incredibly waterproof, and is durable enough even for outdoor applications (e.g., decks). I have some to use on my dining room table (made of reclaimed barn wood), but have not used it yet.

[DougA]

Thank you for all your responses. Waterlox makes several products -- There's an original sealer (semi-gloss), a satin and high gloss finish; the original is supposed to be a base coat. Which one(s) did you use?

I called our local Ikea (Conshohocken, PA) and talked to one of the Kitchen people, and mentioned that some people suggest other products, and I asked him if he knew why. He said that he has heard that the Behandla isn't very water resistant, but knew of no other reason.

Again thanks for your recommendations. I think we're going to go with the Waterlox, and probably Satin, which requires a coat of the sealer first. The Waterlox site has a calculator for how much to buy.

DougA

[yankeelawyer]

Originally Posted by DougA

Thank you for all your responses. Waterlox makes several products -- There's an original sealer (semi-gloss), a satin and high gloss finish; the original is supposed to be a base coat. Which one(s) did you use?

I called our local Ikea (Conshohocken, PA) and talked to one of the Kitchen people, and mentioned that some people suggest other products, and I asked him if he knew why. He said that he has heard that the Behandla isn't very water resistant, but knew of no other reason.

Again thanks for your recommendations. I think we're going to go with the Waterlox, and probably Satin, which requires a coat of the sealer first. The Waterlox site has a calculator for how much to buy.

DougA

With Waterlox, you always do the first couple of coats with the original finish, regardless of what you want as the final effect. That is convenient, as it will give you an idea of how shiny the original formula is (though they call it semi-gloss, it is very glossy -- very pretty, but no doubt about it; it is GLOSSY). Note that the first coat soaks into the wood the most, sealing it, and may appear a bit blotchy in terms of shine. It will start to build on the second coat or so, depending on the wood, and completely even out.

If you want a more natural finish, use the satin as your top coat; that will take down some of the shine. Do note, however, that the very shiny original finish does become more muted over time. I have original finish on my floors (4 coats; floors are stained walnut) and at present have 3 coats of original on my shelves for the kitchen. We are putting them up on Monday; I will decide then whether they would be better with a satin finish. Right now they look very pretty, though, so I may end up leaving them alone.

BTW, I have spoken to the people at Waterlox several times throughout my various projects and they are very helpful. I also found that their materials calculators were fairly accurate when doing my floors.

Also, re the wet sanding; you can get the wet sanding paper at Home Depot. It is black; I use the 320, which is a very fine grained sandpaper. A light sanding with that after the first coat will leave the surface like silk with minimal effort; you just glide it gently over the entire surface a couple of times (it took me 5 minutes, max, to do a 72 x 12 inch shelf, for example).