[zomigi]

Alright, it's time to bite the bullet and decide on our plan so we can hopefully order when we go up to the store the weekend after next. I'm a really indecisive person, so I'm stuck between two plans. I'd really like your feedback on which plan you think is better, as well as any issues I've forgotten to address in the plans.

I've attached both the planner files as well as images of the plans. I've labeled where I intend to put stuff in each of them to make sure everything will have a good spot to go in the new kitchen.

Option 1 (please see labeled plan in gallery: http://www.ikeafans.com/galleries/?n=5514) keeps all the appliances pretty much where they are. The opposite wall has a pantry and seating area added, which will also have open shelving above it for cookbooks and decorative items. There's a 9" Perfekt cubby on the floor that will have a hole behind it to hide the cat bowls in.

Option 2 (please see labeled plan in gallery: http://www.ikeafans.com/galleries/?n=5517) has that same pantry/seating/open shelving wall, but the other L-shaped wall has the appliances rearranged to put the dishwasher right by the sink and the fridge across from the pantry. It also has open shelving over the dishwasher to store the dishes and glasses on (with a closed cabinet high above to store ugly servingware like plastic cups, water bottles, etc.)

DH and I are leaning toward Option 1, but both have their pros and cons.

Option 1 PROS:
More counterspace for prep/cook.
Don't have to move dishwasher.
Microwave off counter.
Spices on wall.

Option 1 CONS:
Dishwasher in prep/cook area.
Feels more crowded with fridge by sink.
Not much space for trash/recycling.
Food storage area split.

Option 2 PROS:
Dishwasher out of prep/cook area.
Feels more open.
Food storage in same area.

Option 2 CONS:
Less counterspace for prep/cook.
Less drawer space.
Food far from prep area.
Microwave on counter (could be changed).

What are your thoughts on these layouts? Am I forgetting to leave space for anything (cover panels, etc.) that makes either of these plans unrealistic?

Thanks,
Zoe

[laurie]

I like the flow of the second set of pics. best. In the 1st set, having the dishwasher to the right of the stove will not only interfere with one person prepping and the other loading dishes at the same time, you don't have enough room to open the dishwasher while standing at the sink. Although the dishwasher in the 2nd set opens in front of a doorway, I would prefer it to taking up my prep space.

In plan 2, You could do away with the corner lazy susan and gain larger drawer space (just be sure to have filler so you can open the drawer on each side of the dead corner space). Not sure what works best for you, larger drawers or the lazy susan. Is it possible for you to do a small trash pullout under your sink and make the pullout to the right of your dishwasher another drawer base? I would gain as much drawer space as you can. In a smaller kitchen, it would be a good idea to do a microwave/hood combination to free up your countertop space. If you do this, you can gain another wall cabinet above the dishwasher area instead of what looks like the fan cabinet you have in the pic. (that I assume you were going to install a microwave underneath?) You may have a hard time getting into the wall cabinet to the far right of the stove (in the corner) the way the door will swing out.

Hope this helps to give you some ideas.

[zomigi]

Hi Laurie,

Thanks for your feedback.

I know the placement of the dishwasher is not ideal in Option 1, but I really, really dislike the lack of counterspace in Option 2. I really cook a lot, and Option 2 doesn't really give me any more counterspace than I already have. That's the main reason I lean toward Option 1. I just can't figure out how to gain more counterspace in Option 2.

There actually is room to stand at the sink with the dishwasher door open -- I know this because my husband does it every day, and our current corner leaves even less space than the new corner cabinet will provide. It's very tight, but doable. But yes, he can't really be washing dishes while I am prepping food, only if I'm at the stove itself. But I just crave that counterspace in Option 1!

I do not want to install a microwave over the stove. I don't like having it in my face, and we can't afford it either. Please see the labeled diagrams in my gallery that I linked to in my first post (I would have attached them directly but the forum sizes them down so they're unreadable) for the location of the microwave in each. The diagrams also show that I do intend to have a trash pullout under the sink in both plans. I don't think Option 2, with its 24" sink base, will have room for recycling bins under the sink as well.

Thanks,
Zoe

[laurie]

I know what you mean about wanting more prep space. Currently in my present "who designed this thing anyway!" kitchen, my dishwasher is to the right of my sink, then a base corner with a 9" door that I have to stick my head in with a flashlight to see anything, and then the stove. Definitely no counterspace there. However, I have 5ft of counterspace to the left of the sink I rarely use because I do all my prep between the sink and stove. So, 24" of prep. isn't much. If your dishwasher doesn't bother you in it's current location, then I'd say go for the more prep space with Plan 1. You might check out some of the deals on microhoods when you can, it definitely would save you some space (hint: maybe a Christmas present from Mom and Dad?)

[etznab]

I would go with option 1. You can "adjust" to feeling crowded by the fridge. But there is not much that can be done about lack of counter space. I think having the food storage split is a small trade off in return for more counterspace.

Good luck. I'm struggling to finalize my plan as well. I'll be going to Ikea on Wednesday to see the stuff in person for the first time.

[Janne]

Drats, lost my post... start again... the condensed version

I prefer Option 1. In option 2, I'd be concerned about opening the fridge when people are seated would be a bit tight. Fridge has more room in Option 2. And I'm all for simplified plumbing, lower costs and not moving major stuff if you're not planning to be in the house for a long time.

Re Option 1:

Cover Panels :

1. Do you need them either side of the range fan? I have the same soffit, range fan over the stove set up and now the cabinet sides look bare because I never thought to put cover panels there. Maybe someone else will know what you're supposed to do here?

2. You probably don't need that cover panel between the wall and the pantry.

3. You do need one between fridge and sink. Your soffit is 83" high, right? So you need to cut down an 88" cover panel if you want it to go all the way to the floor.

The shelf unit above the lazy susan looks odd to me. Why not a regular 12" cabinet?

I love the table arrangement you came up with. But maybe I've been watching too much HGTV and house staging ideas - I'd like a table with 4 chairs for selling purposes otherwise it might limit potential customers to couples.

Better just post this now before I get logged out again...

[zomigi]

Laurie -- Just to be clear, I agree that it would be great to have the dishwasher elsewhere. I just can't think of a way to do it that doesn't compromise counterspace, and ultimately, I care about that more since more time is spent in there prepping food than doing dishes. If anyone has any brilliant ideas, I'm all ears! But in such a small space there's only so many places you can put things, and I'm afraid I've exhausted those options.

etznab -- Yeah, the fridge is currently in the same spot as in Option 1, so we're already adjusted to it. Have fun on Wednesday and let me know what you think your plans will be -- there's a good chance we're going to rent a van the weekend of Dec 7-9, so let me know if you're interested in going in with us on that. (It depends what they have in stock, though -- need more info first.)

Janne -- Good point about the fridge. Hadn't thought of that. For the cover panels, the only reason I put one on the side of the pantry by the wall is I thought it would look weird to have one on one side only. But that might be totally normal and not noticeable, I don't know. For the extra space around the stove, I was just going to use filler pieces. And, those extra couple inches don't have to go there -- if anyone has a suggestion for where to best place those filler pieces to clear doors or whatever, I'd love to hear it. Do I really need a floor to ceiling cover panel by the fridge? We don't have one now, which is rather nice because we have stuff stuck on the side of the fridge by the sink which is useful. Would a cover panel just on the wall cab work? For the seating area, I don't think we can fit in room for 4, but I hear ya (but that reminds me -- I need to measure one more time to make sure that space really will be comfortable for 2!). These townhouses are pretty small, though, so most of the people who live in them are single or couples anyway. I think potential buyers will be impressed we even have built-in seating in the kitchen -- most of the units all have the same kitchens from 1982, with their awkward layouts that don't make good use of space. We do have a separate dining area (really just a long living room) and dining table.

[Janne]

I understand the purpose of cover panels is for 2 reasons - looks and wear. The cabinet frames aren't as durable apparently, and if a cover panel gets beat up, you can just replace it, as opposed to having to replace a cabinet. But if you have space you can always put a cover panel in later if you had to.

Cover panel next to fridge and the 24" deep over the fridge cabinet - you don't have to have one but it gives it that built in appearance. It's a nice look. Look at the display kitchens in the store and the Galleries here. You could always add this cover panel later when you go to sell. Cover panel would attach directly to your base sink cabinet and your OTF cabinet so your countertop would need to cooperate.

2 cover panels on your pantry - unless you have an eagle eye, I doubt you'd notice one missing from the wall. I'm all for not having to move 88"h cover panels if you don't have to Not fun storing these in townhomes! I think professionals actually scribe filler to the wall when a cabinet is right next to the wall. I did this with one tall pantry because I had to - it was prominent and needed filler anyway. But another pantry hidden away in a corner - I didn't bother. It's a pullout and I have no clearance issues. On the planner, it looks like when you open your pantry door, the handle would be in the doorway space - is that right? The door won't open the 130" that the IKEA hinges allow but I have some doors that open like this and it's fine. Or you could make it a pullout. Pullouts are great for food storage, but maybe that was your broom closet? I didn't see any shelves in it.

BTW if you see any cover panels in your door style in the As Is - grab them for filler.

Symmetry - right now you have these sized doors on your uppers:
12 + 12, 15 + 15, 18 + 18, 24 MW, 12"

How about:
24 MW, 15 + 15, 18 + 18, 18 + 18

I moved the odd 24” MW door to the corner, and added 2 x 36” cabinets. Would that work? Less cabinets means less install work. That would give you some symmetry to the right of the stove. I base this on 1 design seminar I attended at The Great Indoors J All I remember from that seminar is try not to have a hodge podge of door sizes and budget $40,000 for a kitchen reno.

Our kitchen was a 1980s kitchen with the same doors as yours. Aren't they horrible!

[zomigi]

Hi Janne,

Did you mean to post a planner file? I hadn't thought about the fact that less cabinets means less install work. That makes me happy.

Fridge cover panel -- I hear you on the built-in look. And we don't have to decide right away, since cover panels can go in last, or even right before we sell, like you said. We'll be sure to place the wall cabinet far enough over that there will be the proper space between it and the countertop below if we want to add the full height cover panel.

Pantry cabinet -- Yes, the handle on the door should open into the doorway. But it might still be nice to have some filler on that side to provide more clearance for the 130 hinges. I initially thought I wanted the pullout pantry, but upon seeing it in the store, I decided I didn't like it. I want to have the hinged door with the drawers inside.

1980s kitchen -- LOL, everyone has these cabinets it seems! I see them on craigslist frequently. I've actually considered getting some of these cabinets on craigslist to replace some of our warped doors, but most of our cabs are irregular sizes (most everything in our house is irregular!).

[Janne]

No, I didn't do anything to the planner file. I'm not such a whizz with those.

Hey, it might even reduce the cost to have less cabinets - the doors are the most expensive thing and less doors should lower your total cost.