[jlaws]

Longtime lurker, first time poster. My wife and I have been planning our kitchen for quite awhile and despite planning on Ikea for the larger share of that time, we're now deciding between Ikea and American Woodmark (HD brand). We can get each piece with the same relative options and trims (even similar doors to Stat). The initial quote from HD for what I'll post below was $4500 (inc tax/shipment and glass). We have a glass person in the family and would have the wall cabinet doors come built for glass but without the glass (should save 50% on the glass, according to HD...even if we didn't have someone in the family). They also have a 10% "Ultimate Kitchen blahblah" thing going on which would knock 10% off of that price. The American Woodmark cabinets (Annapolis Model in White) are all plywood construction with Thermofoil wraps on the doors.

In comparison, we've had Stat on the plate with Ikea for quite awhile now (well over a year). The total cost at Ikea (not including tax) is right around $3,000 (including the double domsjo). My wife has a few concerns with the Ikea cabinets (we've already installed some Stat in the bathroom).

1. She absolutely hates the texture and look of the interiors of the cabinets/shelves. That rough flat white is really not something she cares for and prefers the Woodmark in this respect (all the same texture in/out). While I know people edgeband to match the doors, can I get edgebanding that matches the Stat and have it cover the entire interior framing and shelves (not just edges) without it looking terrible or causing issues with shelves/mountings?

2. One of her cleaning products leaked into the base bathroom cabinet and it ate through the interior coating. Now the base has a fat bulge in it as the liquid reached the particle board. Serious concern in the kitchen?

3. Resell value. We plan to sell (or rent out) this home in 3-4 years and are concerned that the Ikea cabinets may be offputting to someone looking to purchase. While the rest of the house has brand new wide plank wood flooring (Manchurian Walnut w/ handscrape), new electric, new plumbing, and absolute black granite in the kitchen/bath...it is a concern that the Ikea will not "match up".

I've babbled long enough, here are the pictures from the planner. The same layout is done through HD as I went piece by piece with the same exact options/interiors.

Fridge Block


Gallery Block


Gallery Block 2


Dimensions


Let me know if you have any questions about what something is or why I'd do something in particular.


Thanks!

[crg2mls]

As far as resale value I too initially had concerns. I too intend on going with granite. My feeling is that if someone were to be hesitant to consider Ikea cabinets as a quality material they would most likely be swayed by the look of the kitchen. That being said I also decided that as a buyer I would be very pleased with the option of changing door/panels for a completely "new" kitchen. Finally, I think that most people don't think that Ikea is quality simply because they haven't seen their kitchens.

I may be wrong, but it seems to me that any cabinet would be damaged by leaking cleaning liquid.

[jlaws]

Very possible about the leaking cleaning fluid. It wasn't a lot of fluid, was just some murphy's. The fear being it ate through the coating on the base of the cabinet and once it gets to the mdf/particle board that IKEA uses it will explode like a sponge. All plywood construction would be much more resistent to poofing from water, it is pretty resilient (that's why construction crews have no issues leaving it outside in the rain when on the site, it isn't going to warp or go *poof*).

We like the look of IKEA, we like the added functionality (and hackery). Its more down to resale and the interior veneer. Even if I can remove the interior veneer and replace it with a smoother and more "equal" veneer like what the front edges and doors have for Stat, it would be a real pain to do all of that.

Just wanted to get a gauge on opinion for our concerns and also see if there is anything glaringly wrong with the layout.

From the left of the gallery, there is the following:

base - 18" base cab w/ 4 drawers, 30" range, 21" base cab w/ shelves, 36" domsjo base w/ sink, 24" dish washer, 15" base w/ 4 drawers, 12" base w/ shelves

wall - 18x30 wall cab w/ glass, 30" horizontal w/ glass, 18x30 wall cab w/ glass (leaving 3" from sink window on either side), 30x30 wall cab w/ glass, 18x30 wall cab w/ glass

fridge side - 30x88 high cab w/ 2 drawers, 36x24x24 fridge cab.

What you can't see in the picture is that everywall except the fridge wall has a soffit which runs flush with the top of the window. Also, the fridge wall is bumped out to put the cabinets flush with the fridge and the partition wall (which will be encased with cabinet grade wood).

The flooring looks like such:

[NBeth]

Hi! I can't pull up the planner right now but I can comment on the other stuff.

I would protect any cabinet from chemicals that can do that. Sealing the inner edges of sink cabs is good idea, of course--again, for all cab brands.

Some questions to consider: how thick is the HD plywood? 3/4" particle board like Ikea uses is more dimensionally stable than wood in many cases, although I do like the look of wood better myself. How are the cabinets assembled? Ikea's camlock and dowel method assures very stable structures; their adjustable legs and easy wall hanging system make speedy pro and/or easy DIY installation possible, potentially saving significant labor charges.

What kind of drawer hardware would you get for that price? (Ikea uses the fancy schmancy Blum hardware that custom kitchen places use--and more importantly, it works really well). How easy is the HD surface to clean? I love my Stat--all I usually need is a wet dishcloth to get stuff off--for the "big" jobs I use a touch of dishwashing detergent. That's it!

Re. shelves. First, the only shelves should be on the wall, since ikea drawers are the best thing since sliced bread!

For wall shelves you have the option of using tempered glass. They can't hold as much weight but in most cases it's enough. In other cases, my personal inclination is to use a pretty liner and call it a day! After all, it's not like you're going to live in there, or like anyone will be looking and feeling all over the shelves--or at least I hope not!

Resale has been covered in previous threads--I encourage you to search under that. Many people simply market their kitchens as "European" cabinetry. I know people who have spent a lot more than we did on our Stat kitchen and they like ours better for function and looks. Good luck no matter which way you go!

[bluedenim]

What would you use to seal the sink cabinet?

[NBeth]

We used a kitchen/bath caulk. I'm embarrassed to say we didn't think to do it right away and then had some leaks (very minor, thank goodness! But now it's there

[jlaws]

Originally Posted by NBeth

Hi! I can't pull up the planner right now but I can comment on the other stuff.

I would protect any cabinet from chemicals that can do that. Sealing the inner edges of sink cabs is good idea, of course--again, for all cab brands.

It wasn't at the ends, it ate through the white stuff covering the middle of the bathroom base (which as an Akurum 30" base). I'm not sure how to prevent that other than to not let anything leak.

Originally Posted by NBeth

Some questions to consider: how thick is the HD plywood? 3/4" particle board like Ikea uses is more dimensionally stable than wood in many cases, although I do like the look of wood better myself. How are the cabinets assembled? Ikea's camlock and dowel method assures very stable structures; their adjustable legs and easy wall hanging system make speedy pro and/or easy DIY installation possible, potentially saving significant labor charges.

3/4" Plywood. I forget how they are joined, but 'dovetail' does ring a bell. I know that the drawers for the Annapolis are full extension with hidden glides. All items should come pre-assembled (doors not attached, obviously) to the house. They mount like regular cabinets, no sweet rail mounting like IKEA (one reason I do like the IKEA). They do not have legs, they already have a toe-kick base (height of base cabs is 34" something). Either way, I will be installing these myself.

Originally Posted by NBeth

How easy is the HD surface to clean? I love my Stat--all I usually need is a wet dishcloth to get stuff off--for the "big" jobs I use a touch of dishwashing detergent. That's it!

No real difference in the cleaning (from feel) than the Stat. Wet dishcloth.

Originally Posted by NBeth

]
Re. shelves. First, the only shelves should be on the wall, since ikea drawers are the best thing since sliced bread!

I should go over the drawer options from IKEA again. With these cabinets not being extremely wide (none of the bases is more than 21"), I was worried that the drawers would not give a lot of depth (top to bottom depth, not back to front) for stuff. I had some ideas for making the shelves rollout instead of them being stationary.

Originally Posted by NBeth

For wall shelves you have the option of using tempered glass. They can't hold as much weight but in most cases it's enough. In other cases, my personal inclination is to use a pretty liner and call it a day! After all, it's not like you're going to live in there, or like anyone will be looking and feeling all over the shelves--or at least I hope not!

Tempered glass for what? Shelves? We're not looking for any glass shelves, just glass fronts on the top. Good point about the looking/feeling. I think she hates it because I have not put the finished end on the high cab and base cab in the bathroom...and haven't put the door back up after doing some work in the bathroom.

Originally Posted by NBeth

Resale has been covered in previous threads--I encourage you to search under that. Many people simply market their kitchens as "European" cabinetry. I know people who have spent a lot more than we did on our Stat kitchen and they like ours better for function and looks. Good luck no matter which way you go!

We live rather close to IKEA. The fear is that people will instantly know it is IKEA and come away unimpressed. This isn't a big fear, but it is one of the many concerns we're dealing with before we place our order.

[NBeth]

If you order cabs with glass doors the default seems to be that they also order glass shelves. Horizontals also come with glass shelves. The glass is very pretty and can take a fair amount of weight, just not as much as the melamine. You have your choice, however, just be sure to tell the person placing the order what you want.

Re. sealing, that was just an extra comment thrown in. Sorry for the confusion.

I would be concerned about a prefab base: almost no house is perfectly level and adjusting height at the counter is much more visible than adjusting it at the base. Traditional cabs are adjusted at the base too. If you have to shim under your prefab toekick, the gap will be obvious, whereas with Ikea's system, the toekick sits on the ground and the gaps, if any, are at the top where they are practically invisible.

All Ikea drawers give you the same depth options, no matter the width. I would encourage you to consider an arrangement that yields some larger units, however, particularly since the 21" base drawer options are more limited than the others. In particular, you could really use some more space between the sink and the range. It looks like you might have a few inches open next to the doorway on the sink wall. Combining the 15" and 12" unit brings you short of a 30" set but with extra for a 24". I would be inclined to put all of these "spare" inches between the sink and range if possible. You might also consider doing pullouts under the sink to maximize utility. And with a few parts from another source or some homemade modifications, it's possible to have wide internal drawers on that big pantry--something to consider.

Hope this helps--I know these decisions can be very stressful!

[jlaws]

Originally Posted by NBeth

If you order cabs with glass doors the default seems to be that they also order glass shelves. Horizontals also come with glass shelves. The glass is very pretty and can take a fair amount of weight, just not as much as the melamine. You have your choice, however, just be sure to tell the person placing the order what you want.

I think we'd rather have the melamine up there.

Originally Posted by NBeth

I would be concerned about a prefab base: almost no house is perfectly level and adjusting height at the counter is much more visible than adjusting it at the base. Traditional cabs are adjusted at the base too. If you have to shim under your prefab toekick, the gap will be obvious, whereas with Ikea's system, the toekick sits on the ground and the gaps, if any, are at the top where they are practically invisible.

Good point. There is additional "fancy toe kick" that I would need for the Annapolis. The toe kick I referred to is just the base.

Originally Posted by NBeth

All Ikea drawers give you the same depth options, no matter the width. I would encourage you to consider an arrangement that yields some larger units, however, particularly since the 21" base drawer options are more limited than the others. In particular, you could really use some more space between the sink and the range. It looks like you might have a few inches open next to the doorway on the sink wall. Combining the 15" and 12" unit brings you short of a 30" set but with extra for a 24". I would be inclined to put all of these "spare" inches between the sink and range if possible. You might also consider doing pullouts under the sink to maximize utility. And with a few parts from another source or some homemade modifications, it's possible to have wide internal drawers on that big pantry--something to consider.

Wifey wants countertop on both sides of the range. I previously had 18's on either side of the range but squeezed the 21" in there as I thought she could use the extra 3" between the sink and range for food prep. Because of the location of the window, we're limited in space to the wall on the right of the picture (and she wants the dishwasher on that side so that is an instant 24" removed from 51" and change available). I've already wired the range outlet and it is 30" from the left side of the sink window. That gives me some play as the range itself is 30", but it still needs to be somewhere in the center of that section because of Wifey Requirement #1 (counters on both sides). I agree, it would be much easier to have the range at the end but that is an argument I always lose. That "door" you see towards the range is a doorwall to the deck in the back yard. With traffic in and out of there, I didn't want to crowd it too much and that is why I'm trying to leave 12" or so unused on that side. I'll consider playing with that part.[/quote]

[NBeth]

Yes, counters should be on both sides of the range: I'm in agreement with your wife there! But you have room to do the 18" cab and the 24" in the middle since you have 12" spare inches (that's a lot!) next to your door. The 24" cab is a very useful size. I don't suppose you've considered the 24" single domjo farm sink? With a dishwasher, very few people use their sink all that much and the one single bowl is bigger than either of the two bowls in the double. That would give you more flexibility elsewhere in your design. If you keep the 36" unit I would still change the 15" and 12" cabs to one single 24" unit: much more useful even with the lost inches.