[ABinTO]

Hi Ikea experts,

So, I sat down at the computer at 10 this morning to start plotting out my ideas in the kitchen planner and it's now 2:30 and I'm stuck (on the positive side my computer is still on my desk and not thrown out the window). This is where I've gotten so far

http://kitchenplanner.ikea.com/CA/UI...SharedDesign=1

and this is the inspiration photos I've had bookmarked for more than a year
Finished Kitchen: Circa 1840 Working Farmhouse, IKEA Budget Reno - Kitchens Forum - GardenWeb
(I tried desperately to get something like the window wall in the second photo to set-up on my fridge wall without success).

Even the way the room is represented in the plan isn't what I really meant. I'm attaching the as-is of our bungalow. We will be removing the L-shaped inner wall of the kitchen to open it up to the living/dining, and replacing it with an island (where the sink and dishwasher are in my plan) that will have a raised bar-counter facing into the living room (I couldn't get the 6 cabinet island that's 2 levels into my plan because of the wall that won't really be there). This means that I have wiggle room with where the stove run of cabinets ends and the fridge that looks like it's in a corner will actually be the other open end (I left it at the end of that wall because there is talk of recessing it back into the cupboard behind (?). We are also bricking up the window that's in the as-is as it faces a brick wall and with the opened walls we'll have plenty of light.

Just to tell you a bit about what we're trying to achieve. We are a family of 5 (2 adults, 3 young kids) and our whole renovation came about because I NEED more room in the kitchen, more storage, more counter space, more 'I can't have more than 1 person function here' space. We also keep a kosher style kitchen - which means I have 2 sets of everything - pots and pans, utensils, dishes, baking stuff (I do not however need 2 of the appliances). I like a feeling of open-ness but worry that I've created too many glass doors since most of what I store is utilitarian not pretty. The rest of our house is traditional, a bit antique-y and not modern. My goal is to create an everything-in-its-place sort of space and it needs to be 'pretty' since it will be seen when you first come in the house and from all 'public' areas once the walls are removed.

Thanks so much for any guidance.

[ABinTO]

see - I can't even get the title right

[personalshopper]

You chose a stellar inspiration space. Here on Ikeafans, it's known as Brickman's kitchen, and it's the Versailles of Ikea kitchens. http://www.ikeafans.com/home/1840-farmhouse-kitchen/
So...we have a Canadian kosher kitchen in the tradition of an 1840 American farmhouse. Any other descriptive terms? Asian hacienda? European minimalist baroque? It looks like a very interesting project....probably more fun from a distance than it is up close and personal, with 3 children running through the construction zone.

Before I devote too much time and energy to mutilating your plan (which, BTW , is pretty darned good!), tell me: do you use a microwave oven and do you think you need more pantry space?

I'm not up to speed on kosher kitchens, but if I understand you, keeping the plates and cooking utensils is the prime concern. The oven, refrigerator and dishwasher can be shared, and a double sink will meet your requirements. Is that right? Okay...is it even close? If someone (tbb123, for example) gets a wild notion to move plumbing or add an additional sink, would that be a possibility? Do you hope to have enough seating around the island for all of you?
Oh - and welcome to IF!

	BTW definintion BTW means By The Way

[ABinTO]

Hi Personal Shopper,

What a relief, someone fixed the title for me - it's nice to know I'm being looked after like that and so much more. This is sure to be a much more beautiful (oh ya and functional) kitchen with my planning angels looking over me.

I like the idea of a Versaille inspired, Canadian, kosher-style kitchen (with hints of Asian Baroque farmhouse). Wouldn't you know it - in all my googling I never came across that kitchen in ikeafans.

Mutilate away - of course I need pantry space (I did have a forehead slapping moment about that in the car about an hour after my original post - the kids are little but I will have 2 teenage boys on my hands before too long..) and we do use a microwave (I didn't even catch that one yet). I wonder where it could be tucked away? Its on the counter now and is kind of an eyesore.

I know there are many different definitions of a kosher-style kitchen. For us it means 2 complete sets of anything used to prepare food and eat it - plates, dishes, pots, cooking utensils. But we need only one of each appliance (a double sink really isn't a necessity - I use different sponges and wash one 'set' at a time - I just picked a double sink since I'm used to it - it's what came with the current kitchen - doesn't have to be). My thinking was that I doubled everything on either side of the stove thinking everything 'meat' would go on one side and a mirror image on the other side for everything 'milk'. Again that's not how we've made it work in the current kitchen so it doesn't HAVE to be like that.

As I said - mutilate away - anything is up for grabs to make this the most amazing kitchen it can be. Free reign - go for it! I didn't consider an extra sink because it still seems like a small space and I couldn't imagine ever being far enough away from the one sink to make a second worthwhile. I guess I was more worried about COUNTER SPACE and STORAGE - can you tell I've been missing those things for too long. The idea of the raised bar on the island was really to hide some of the kitchen mess from view . We want a large (9 or 10 foot) table in the open space perpendicular to the island. That is where we intend to eat meals. The island will be for quick breakfast, homework etc., not all of us at once.

[momofEAP]

I have tried on many occasions to look at your design and it just takes me to the sign in page. Just looking at your floor plans makes me ask.....are you open to relocating the kitchen?

[tbb123]

Very nice plan - just a few tweaks.
http://kitchenplanner.ikea.com/CA/UI...SharedDesign=1

I took out those deep cabinets that aren't over the refrigerator - I myself would feel like I was in a cave. I did add some solid doors.

I show the black laminate counters on the L but would do what Brickmanhouse did. Stain butcherblock with India ink! Genius.

I would put the daughter sink in a 30" cabinet with cover panels:

Quote:
Originally Posted by personalshopper

The sink. Let me openly admit my prejudice here. I love the Domsjo single, but the double just doesn't do it for me, even though it looks great. The major disadvantage to a double sink with standard size bowls is that, while 2 bowls are nice, neither basin is large enough to hold baking pans and cookie sheets. The Domsjo isn't very deep, either. After spending most of my adult life with a standard double sink, I finally decided to treat myself to a deep offset double sink, with one very large bowl and one standard one. Even my husband, who had to do the installation, admits that it was well worth the time and trouble.

Our daughter's sink is also an offset one, and it contributed to this thread here on Ikeafans: Is this sink too big?

Behind the sink I used the 39" tall shallow bases (wall cabinets on legs.) I show 12" wide cabinets, because the planner doesn't allow for 24" cabs with double doors, but they, of course, exist. If you want the overhang, you'd add it - I just can't show it at that height.

Your bricked-up window? I didn't brick it up all the way - put a sliver of window up high. In Christopher Alexander et al's "A Pattern Language," one of the most important elements is "Light on 2 sides of every room." Described here:

159 LIGHT ON TWO SIDES OF EVERY ROOM

Your microwave:

Quote:
Originally Posted by wombat94
I don't know if this works for you, but for best use of space, we decided NOT to use the microwave cabinet, and instead use an under cabinet micro.

Re: Kitchen demo and redo 

The Micro is a GE Spacemaker II PEM31SMSS. It hangs about 1.5 to 2 inches below the edge of the cover panel/light rail, but the cabinet above is a full cabinet that gives us a lot more accessible space than a micro cabinet would.

Here's a link to the micro at AJ Madison

GE PEM31 1.0 cu. ft. Countertop Microwave Oven with 800 Watts, 10 Power Levels, 6 Sensor Settings and Glass Turntable

You have to buy the hanging kit (about $20) to install it as an under-cabinet.

The thing I really like about it is how "built in" it looks. It is just about 1/8" narrower than the full width of the cabinet (about 1" wider than a micro that would go on the micro shelf cab - because is includes the width of the side walls of the cabinet). And it is just about perfectly flush with the doors above it on the cabinet - it sticks out maybe 1/16"

Ted

Larger microwave solutions:

Quote:
Originally Posted by personalshopper
A possible problem-solver for some kitchen designers? I just stumbled across this over-counter (NOT made for over the range) microwave - a very handsome one, I think. It's more generously sized than the GE Profile that has been suggested quite often in the kitchen planning forum, so if the petite size of the GE model doesn't meet your needs, take a look at this Sharp model. It's available in stainless, black and white, and would fit nicely below a 24" wall cabinet. Sharp R121 1.5 cu. ft. Over the Counter Microwave Oven with 1,100 Cooking Watts, Defrost Center, Interactive Cooking System and Auto-Touch Control Panel

[personalshopper]

LOL . There. tbb123 saved me a lot of planner time with a design that is almost identical to the layout that I wanted to suggest. But that high window ....gorgeous. What a great idea!

	LOL definition LOL means Laugh(ing) Out Loud

[ABinTO]

Thanks for the help from both of you. I guess if 2 great minds were thinking the same thing that really says something.

The idea of the window over the stove hood is something I never would have thought of. Since the window doesn't go that high now I'm going to have to give some thought to how that might work ( ie . I get how it would work, I need to investigate the cost because it sure is pretty and unique).

I guess I'm going to have to give up the idea of counter to ceiling cupboards. I love the look of that and doubled up height of cupboards. Too bad our ceilings aren't higher. I was trying to figure out how it was done in the Brickman photos - the only thing I could figure was over-fridge cupboards top and bottom with regular in the middle (that's why they were there in my original plan - I agree it was cave-like in the layout)

Thanks again for all your time in helping me with this.

	IE defintion IE means Internet Explorer

[tbb123]

What he used was fan cabinets - same depth as the wall cabinets and definitely do-able!

What do you want them to accomplish?