[nicolerosenberg]

So we've been in our new house for 3 weeks, and the bare bones 1989 white melamine kitchen is already grating on my nerves. No fittings in the cabinets either. As you can see, it's not the white that bothers me as I'm really attracted to the clean lines of Adel white (although beech is still a consideration).

As I'm sure will be evident by my posting, I really know nothing about kitchen design, but I've been reading all of your expertise and hope I've learned something.

I think the kitchen is too crowded, but I'd really like to have peninsula seating and a dining table for 6 if possible. I can't figure out how to make the bar narrower, but that should help. All of the appliances are placed in the same location where they currently are which seems to work reasonably well, but I'm open to suggestions.

Thanks so much in advance.

[zeuss]

I took a quick stab at your kitchen but I've got to run to my night class soon.

I changed a couple things. I made the counter overhang only 12" by using 3 pieces - it isn't perfect but it works OK for now. I also feel you peninsula was too long and would crowd the fridge too much. It is still a bit too tight, but ....

I also think your 2 big pantries were crowding the dining are too much so I shortened them a bit and turned the corner by the fridge a bit differently.

It is so unfortunate that you have 3 corners! That really cuts down on prime space. I am going to have to come back to it to see if there is a better way.

One thing I did do was put your sink on the peninsula so the dishwasher could be right next to the sink. This arrangement works so much better. And since the sink wasn't centred on a window anyway....

Another think besides all the corners that bothers me is the use of 2 Perfekt wine cubbies. I would rather see that space used for more effective storage, but I respect what your doing with the symmetry.

Leave it with me for a bit and I'll see if there alternatives I can come up with.

[nicolerosenberg]

The corners definitely make this one a challenge - that's mostly what I've been struggling with. Your design already looks so much better than when I started. I don't love the perfekt wine cabinet either, but it was the symmetry thing driving me ... if anyone has better suggestions I'm definitely open.

[zeuss]

Here is something completely different. Hopefully others will weigh in with their opinions (but the site is going down soon for an big update)

What I did was eliminated all 3 corners plus the 2 wine racks. If the fridge opened on the right, it would work better. But I made more usable space, by cutting down the total space. Every cabinet and countertop is totally accessable here and there is room for more than one cook.

The sink will be much better because I included a 15" pullout that would work for a trash pullout on one side of the sink and the dishwasher on the other. By positioning it on the peninsula, people can help clear the table and load the dishwasher easily.

The stove is offset from the sink so 2 people working won't bump butts. YOu could even move the peninsula closer to the stove/fridge wall to make more dining space.

Another thing you could do is add 42" floor cabinets to the back of the peninsula to hide the kitchen mess a bit from those sitting down at the table. You could still have an overhang for stools.

The fridge is very accessable for people wanting a beverage without getting in the cook's way and there is enough clearance at the end of the peninsula so there won't be traffic jams. You could probably expand to a 36" sink cabinet if that was important to you.

You still have 2 pantries with lots of storage and enough space by the stove for prep. A microwave could fit into the 24" pantry or the 30 wall cabinet to the left of the stove (without glass doors though)

And your lower cabinets are all the great storage drawer units instead of corner basket things that aren't that great.

Let me know what you think?

[zeuss]

I reconfigured the peninsula a bit. I made it longer with a bigger sink plus I moved it closer to the stove/fridge wall. I also added 42" high cabinets behind it to help screen the mess, and then bar stool sitters don't feel like they are in your sink. Sorry, but I can't seem to make the overhang go up to the 42" height - it is stuck down at 36"

I know this is a big change from the one with 3 corners, but give it a chance and let it sink in. Maybe after the site comes up tomorrow we can get some feedback and opinions from other Ikeafans. Now I'm really off to school!

[NBeth]

Just a quick question as I ponder Zeuss' ideas. Is there really a door that has to find room to open into the dining room table? Or is that an opening? or?

[nicolerosenberg]

Wow - very different indeed. I understand the need to eliminate the corners - I just feel like I have so much less counter space - but maybe not?

I should have clarified the doors - the wider one is/are sliding glass doors to our patio and the other one is just an opening to the hallway (no door).

Do you think there's any good way to increase counter space? Would you really leave that side wall completely bare (seems like a waste?). Also - any way that you can think of to introduce a desk area? We have our computer in the kitchen now (on a free-standing Goliat table, which is fantastic by the way) and our kids really love it.

Thanks again for all the advice.

[zeuss]

We could look at how much counter space the old plan had compared to the new plan if you don't count the 24x24 squares in the corners because they really are not as useful as counters you have full access to. So just add up the linear feet of counter frontage in each plan.

And maybe we should go back to the long wall having cabinets, but I think the short wall with the window is better with nothing. The 2 corners there made it very awkward.

[zeuss]

Yet another version. This version maxes out the counterspace if that is one of your key goals. There are still a few things I'm not crazy about with the plan. Mainly I don't like the fridge placement. It opens right in the bottleneck area. Also, I haven't made allowances for a trash pullout. And I'm not sure I like the dishwasher against a wall, but when I put it at the end of the peninsula, the person at the stove and the person at the sink could bump butts. But it is another version to draw inspiration from.

[NBeth]

I tweaked what was your latest, Zeuss (before site went down), to address the fridge clearance and sink/stove bump factor. But it loses a bit of counter, of course, and the fridge is still in a traffic zone. Could use one of the new pennisula cabs as a trash pullout, so that's a good thing. I continue to be uncomfortable with the narrowness of the dining space, so I moved the penninsula away from the table a bit. I've tried several other designs but nothing is making me happy. I hope some of this works for you, Nicole!